It's Toxic Glue!

Rick Rubin on keeping the channel open, shame, self-doubt, and how to make decisions as you work (hint: "do I like this shirt? or this one?" it's kind of as simple as that)

Mar 30, 2025

Hello friends

I know the title of this post sounds like it will be a tell-all of my spring break adventures or social commentary on the apocalypse we are living through. Unfortunately, zero tell all’s are forthcoming and social commentary is both ongoing and still arriving.

This week I had a blissful two hours by myself while my children baked cupcakes and giggled in matching ponytails. Did this keep their copious hair out of the baked goods? Only teeth will tell.

At one point in the baking trajectory, my youngest worked on an art project mere inches from the cooling rack. The other kid said, “You might want to be careful doing that so close to the cupcakes.”

The project - a paper-mache mummy (of sorts) - required a layer of shellacking on its exterior after its gooey center had dried. Flicking a paint brush perilously close to the cupcakes, the youngest replied cheerfully: “It’s toxic glue!”

Oh good. That sets us all at ease.

I wanted to drop a few Rick Rubin quotes on your head from the Design Matters interview I mentioned last week. I know I’ve made fun of Rick before and reserve my right to roast all celebrity white people in this space (in perpetuity!!). AND YET, I got so much out of this interview, just as I got so much out of Rick’s book when I ~~read it~~ flipped through it before returning it to the library.

Okay, ready? Here is an extremely sloppy highlight of the interview with my random bold font interjected.

I guess it’s still a post, even if all she does is talk about podcasts / Def Jam producers

Rick Rubin on Where Art Comes From:

Debbie Millman: I'm wondering if you think ideas come through the artist rather than from the artist.

Rick Rubin: Yes, the ideas come through the artist, not from the artist. The artist may make connections between things, but the grand vision doesn't come from us. And I think the more artists you speak to, they would all tell you this.

The ones who really have done it consistently over a period of time, tend to get more mystical.

found dog tag on neighborhood tree: the realest root of mysticism

Rick Rubin On Keeping an Open Channel:

Debbie: I want to talk with you about the artist's antenna. You state that we are all translators for messages the universe is broadcasting, and the best artists tend to be the ones with the most sensitive antenna to draw in the energy resonating at a particular moment. It, I think, connects a bit to the tuning in aspect as well.

How do you think that artists are able to pick up what is resonating through this antenna? Do you think it's magic?

Rick: I think that it starts through the love of the thing that you're making. So when you go into a creative pursuit, chances are you're doing it because you love that form. And I think that devotion plays a role through repeated viewing, repeated listening, repeating the study, the care that goes in as a fan.

I think that opens the channel. Now, in terms of sensitivity, the same sensitivity that makes you a great artist makes you a sensitive person. There’s great beauty in being more sensitive, and there’s great pain in being more sensitive. So it’s not uncommon to see great artists have drug problems or not be able to handle their life in a way that’s sustainable. That same sensitivity is the thing that makes them the great artist. It makes the world too painful to be in. It can also make the world an ecstatic place. The highs tend to be higher and the lows tend to be lower if you’re really sensitive. Where another person having the same input feels it as a three or a seven, we might feel it as a zero or 11 based on the same input.

where does Cherry Yum Diddly Dip rate on the scale??

Rick Rubin on The Role of Doubt in a Life/Art:

Rick: There's definitely room for self-doubt. The purpose of it is to know what you're doubting. So when the work is in front of me, and I have the reaction that I have, whatever that is, I think it's beautiful, I think it's challenging, I think it's exciting, I think it's not good enough.

I trust that a million percent. And the reason is, if I feel it, I'm not thinking past that. It's like if I'm shown two pieces of clothing and asked which one I like better, it's usually easy for me to say, I think I like this one better than that one.

That's all I'm doing. And I never go past what that means or what are the commercial implications or what the companies are going to think. I never think past just, how does it make me feel?

Would I wear that piece of clothing? Or do I think it needs to be a better piece of clothing? Do I want a different choice?

I'm making things as the audience. I'm always the audience for the things that I'm working on. And I never think past what I like.

» note from the newslettress «

I tend to think in terms of self-doubt as something to work on or get rid of. Listening to this interview I started to think about self-doubt in terms of boundaries. It seemed to me that in addition to helping him make the best art he can, Rick frames self-doubt almost like getting outside of your zone. As in, if you’re starting to doubt yourself or your work, you are in someone else’s zone.

There is so much wisdom in this for me. If I’m in my own business, making things that I’ve been inspired to make or offering things purely from my heart, it’s not actually my business how I’m coming across to others. When I’m worried what someone else is thinking of me or my work, I’m not in my zone of agency. That’s the real source of self-doubt. It’s not an absence of trust in myself, per se, but it may be a lack of attention on what’s truly mine: i.e. the amount of time or energy I’m putting on my heart and into my works.

At the end of the interview, Debbie reads this passage from Rick’s book, The Creative Act:

Ultimately, your desire to create must be greater than your fear of it.

She then asks: What would be your advice to anyone like me that might be having a war between fear and art?

Rick: “I would suggest lowering the stakes and know that the thing that you're making is, think of it more like a diary entry. You're making a diary entry. Tomorrow you're going to make a new diary entry.

The work that you're making doesn't define you for the rest of your life. It's a moment in time. And if you like the thing that you make enough to show it to a friend, it's ready to go to the world.

Because if you'll show it to your friend or someone you know with good taste, that's all it is. It's no more than that. Everything else is a story in our head.

But if it's good enough to show to your friend, it's certainly good enough to show to a stranger. The other thing that I would recommend is anything you can do to get on a roll of momentum of like a diary entry, make something small, release it into the world. No one has to see it, you know, just put it up.

Wherever you, whatever your version of publishing is, publish it, do another one, publish it, do another one, publish it, do another one, publish it. Get past the idea that this thing is going to define me forever and it has to be perfect. I don't know if it could ever be finished.

What's today's version? Put it out. What's tomorrow's version? Put it out. What's the next? Through that process, you build the musculature and the confidence to be able to do it.

🩷🩷🩷

Okay kids, here’s the last one.

Rick Rubin on the Role of Shame in Art, and on Doing the Inner Work:

Debbie: Where do you see the role of shame in making art?

Rick: Any of the negative emotions that we have can be channeled into the thing that we're making. Whatever our state is when we're making things, is somehow inhabited in the art. And that's part of what makes the art great.

The art isn't great because of how perfect it is. It's great because of how close of a reflection it is to our humanity. Flaws and all.

In terms of shame from the outside on work that you do, all I could say is to ignore it. Because if someone doesn't like something you make, that's fine. That tells you more about them than it does about you. . . If everybody likes it, you haven't gone far enough.

Debbie: You write in The Creative Act that it's not uncommon to long for outward success, hopeful that it will fill a void inside ourselves. Some imagine achievement as a remedy to fix or heal a sense of not being enough.

For those of us struggling with filling that void with productivity or achievement or success, what would be the first thing you'd recommend people do to try and reset?

Rick: I would say get some sort of help outside of art to work on yourself, because they're two separate things. And I can remember when the first album I produced that was a number one album was the Beastie Boys' License to Ill.

I remember getting a call from the lawyer I worked with at that time, who said, you have the number one album in the country. How does that feel? And I remember saying, I've never felt worse in my whole life in that moment.

It's like, “all I ever want to do is make good music by making something that I love, that the world loves,” and it did nothing for whatever was going on inside. If it wasn't for that phone call, I would think back and think, Oh, that must have been the greatest.

But I remember how surreal it was having this conversation. And I've had great success over the course of my life, and I have a great life outwardly because of it. And none of that healed whatever's going on inside of me.

And that was a whole other full-time job for as long as I've been doing this.

🫶🏽🫶🏽🫶🏽

» Kara grabbing back the mic. Thanks so much, Rick! «

I wrote about this idea in my post about Alexander Chee, that inside work should go hand in hand with whatever outside work you’re doing in the world. In some ways, I believe this inner work can only help the art, because it will make you more stable and hopefully more compassionate; a more tender antennae in the world. But it’s also important, and this is the real reason: because your happiness, your peace, your inner wealth is your birthright. Whatever it takes to get you there, I promise it’s worth it. In a world where we can buy so many things, the real gold is your inner seat: a dialogue that can takes care of the passenger, that is kind and receptive and brave and hopeful.

You’re worth it, friends. We all are. In spite of the injustices and horrors we are facing today, if we can remember this and take care from these places, I do believe we will find our ways.

Sending love and care to you today! From Rick Rubin’s Malibu heart and my horse-blessed, Spring Break staycationed soul,

Xoxo

Under a Spell

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